It’s funny that I noticed that my post “NICE GUYS” FINISH LAST (BECAUSE THEY DESERVE TO) got some new hits today, because I was later made of aware of this new story which really fits into this topic. I’ve written about it on my Facebook and Google+ pages, answering the people who were saying things like “She could have let him down easier/she didn’t have to be so harsh/” and stuff like that, by pointing out how desperate and creepy this bloke came off with his multiple messages, but I figured I’d expand my thoughts on it a bit here, since it’s apparently a topic that is still drawing folks to this blog. First, before I continue, you MUST read this:
CREEP STALKS HOT TOPIC EMPLOYEE ON FACEBOOK, GETS SERVED
First, I get it, in this day and age, with the digital era, it’s not always so easy to know how one is supposed to act or react when it comes to dating and the opposite sex…or the same sex, whatever floats your boat. A lot of common “dating rules” that I grew up hearing don’t seem to apply like they used to. And more and more couples are meeting through the internet, whether it’s established dating sites, or just social networks. Heck, years ago, I flew to another city to spend a weekend with a woman I met on Myspace. No, it didn’t work out, but I tried. So where did Christopher Ryan (blank) go wrong?
He meets this lady he’s attracted to in a store, then looks her up on Facebook. Some could say that was a bad start, I don’t necessarily think so. Again, in this day and age, that’s how a lot of people get to know each other. Sure, he could have just waited until he saw her in the store again, and approached her in person and tried to strike up a friendly conversation. But maybe he didn’t want to risk bothering her at work, or just felt more comfortable doing it online. I won’t judge him for that. And, frankly, judging by his later reactions online, he’s probably not that good at striking up friendly conversations with women in real life, and would have probably screwed that up anyway.
So he sends her a message, asking of she’s the woman from Hot Topic, and about 5 ½ hours later, she responds, asking if she knows him. 7 minutes later he responds, describing himself. And, I’m sorry, but I find it HILARIOUS that he was actually wearing A FEDORA. Talk about fitting a stereotype! I could also say that in his description is his first mistake. Once it was established that she was in fact the lady he met, his next response should have probably been a bit more descriptive. “I’m so and so, I met you and thought you seemed nice, I asked (blank) for your name so I could talk to you,” etc. Something like that. He met her Wednesday, this is now Sunday, he should not be surprised if she doesn’t remember him immediately, as he was just a customer in her store. But he was clearly expecting a more back and forth conversation at that moment. Then 17 minutes later, after no response from her, he adds “Do you remember me?” I’ll let that one go, even though that should have been asked in his previous message. But then the next message is early in the morning, after a full night of her not responding, he sends another message. And it’s not even a message, just a frowning face.
THAT is where he first crosses the line, entering into creep-mode, in my opinion. They’d established contact via FB. So that means she’s getting his messages. At that point he should have stopped and just waited to see if she would reply. And if she doesn’t, so be it. You DO NOT KEEP MESSAGING HER, asking if she’ll talk to you. That comes off as desperate (& kinda creepy).
So almost 9 hours later, she does reply, pointing out that she meets a lot of people at work (duh) and didn’t remember giving him her last name. 9 minutes later he responds to her, with a question. Again, that’s the time for him to STOP, and wait for her to respond. He can see now from her last two responses that it may take her several hours to get back to him. Instead, 2 ½ hours later he messages her again. And it’s not even really a message, he writes “Poke.” Seriously?!? At that point, in my opinion, he’s definitely in full-on creep-mode, and looks like a stalker, who deserves to be harshly rejected. But, okay, now, STOP. But, no, instead, almost a full day later, with no reply, he messages her again. Damn, Homie just cannot take a hint. And then less than an hour later, with still no reply from her, he messages her again.
And with that last message, he loses any chance for sympathy, as he pours his heart out to this woman he met once, for less than 5 minutes, over a week ago. And look how he starts the message: “So here’s what I have been thinking. You haven’t blocked me yet. And you haven’t deleted your account, either. So you aren’t too creeped out by my tracking you down.”
Holy Moley. Keep in mind, it’s been over 24 hours since she last replied to him, during which time he’s sent her 3 new messages. And instead of assuming that:
A/She wasn’t interested in talking to him.
B/ She’s been busy and just hadn’t time to get back to him.
His only thought it is, well, she didn’t block me or go the extreme of deleting her entire account, so I must still have chance! And then he goes on to “compliment” her, by calling her a Geek, not considering that even if that’s true (& how would he really know, SINCE HE BARELY KNOWS THIS WOMAN?) what if she doesn’t find that to be a positive description (I sure don’t), and then starts comparing her to actresses whom he’s also never met, and to a fictional character. And he says he would worship her. WORSHIP?!?
37 minutes later, she responds. Notice all she asks him about is to confirm who this other person was that gave him her last name. She didn’t respond to his “compliments” or intent to worship her. Another HINT this clueless fool didn’t catch. 3 minutes later he’s messaging her again, and then 7 minutes after that, another message. That’s when she tells him off, and I say she had every right to.
This dude is a creep and a loser. He spoke to her once, at her job, for maybe 5 minutes, and then spent a week building her up in his head as his ultimate fantasy girl and comes on waaaaaay too strong. When I see people in the comments in that article trying to argue how “mean” she was, that’s absurd. He deserves to get shot down has harshly as possible. This is the guy who assumed that even though she’d been ignoring him for a day, that because she didn’t go so far as to block him or delete her whole account, then she must be interested! If a NON-RESPONSE allows him to make excuses in his own head, then even a nice “No thank you” probably wouldn’t have convinced him to back off completely. You see he tried to plead his case with “But I’m a nice guy! We have a lot in common! I’m watching Game of Thrones!” This is the kind of guy who, before the internet, would probably call a girl and leave a dozen messages on her answering machine, asking her to call him back. And then he’d be like “Well, she hasn’t called me back, but she also hasn’t unplugged her phone or moved away, so I’ve still got a shot!”
And the thing is, I’m willing to bet that this guy still didn’t get it. If she didn’t block him after that last message, I’m sure he sent her another one, probably mad now, “See?!? You bitches always say you want Nice Guys, but then when one of us tries to talk to you, you reject us!” And then goes off to complain to his friends (just kidding, I doubt he has any friends, he probably goes to post on message boards, Reddit, and Twitter) about how he this bitch was so mean to him for no reason. “All I did was compliment her. I told her she was beautiful, cute, AND adorable! I told her I’d worship her! And look at the thanks I got!”
Gentlemen, let me talk to you (yes, YOU): If you read that exchange and find yourself identifying with that guy, or in anyway sympathizing with him, if you REALLY cannot see how his actions would seem creepy to most reasonable women, if you find yourself thinking that her final response to him was too mean, and you feel like focusing on THAT, more than on the way the guy approached her in the first place, then YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. PLEASE, FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, RE-EVALUATE YOUR LIFE. AND SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP, IF NECESSARY.
Update: I just thought I’d add this. The woman involved had a tumblr (she’s since changed the url, I don’t know the new one, that’s why I can’t link to it here) where she gave some more background about this situation. Someone asked here this question (yes, posted in all-caps): NOT CALLING YOU OUT CAUSE YOU CAN SHUT A DUDEBRO DOWN HOWEVER YOU DAMN WELL PLEASE BUT I ALWAYS WONDER WHAT THE BEST WAY OF DEALING WITH THESE SITUATIONS ARE. I MEAN IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE YOUR RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE TRUMPS HIS DUMB FEELINGS BUT I WONDER IF CALLING A DUDE A CREEP FOR BEING SOCIAL AWKWARD/ANXIOUS AND SEXUALLY DELUDED HELPS OR IF IT FURTHER ENTRENCHES INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY. LIKE HOW DO YOU POINT OUT TO PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH A SHADOW, AN IDEA, WITHOUT DESTROYING THEM. PEACE.
And here was her response: There’s a definite difference between being socially awkward or anxious, and pushing someone over a week-long period. He was being creepy. I tried to explain what was upsetting rather than just saying ‘**** you, go away’, but ultimately it’s not my job to teach him how to be a respectful human being.
See, originally, this guy had given me his phone number as I was handing him his purchase and leaving. He slipped it across the counter to me and said, ‘Let’s talk comics sometime,’ then turned and walked away. It’s not the first time somebody’s done that to me at work, and personally I’ve always thought it’s the respectful way to give someone your number, because it takes the pressure off of them. They have your number if they want it, and you’re not standing there asking them ‘will you go out with me’ and making them uncomfortable if they aren’t interested.
Had he left it at that, I wouldn’t have any problem with him at all, and I would have been happy to see him in my store again.
But he didn’t leave it at that. He tracked me down, he dug up information about me I had not made available to him, he made judgement calls about my character and assumptions about me, he pushed and pushed and pushed and was really really creepy towards me. I’m not comfortable with that, and I told him so.
I may have come off as rude to him, and maybe he won’t learn anything. Maybe he’ll just go back to 4-chan and write a post about what an ungrateful ***** I am. But honestly, that doesn’t really concern me. All I wanted was to make it clear to him that his advances were unwelcome and why, and I feel like I did that.
But thank you for being so polite and sweet about it. I totally understand your concerns, and I really appreciate you having my back. There’s lots of different ways to deal with these things, and I hope you keep thinking and come up with something that you can use next time you get creeped on that will maybe be more constructive, or make you feel more comfortable dealing with people like that.
[…] Now what message does this send? Basically it’s saying that when a woman says NO, don’t take that for an answer. Keep going after her, even if it means following (stalking) her around. I’ve written about this before in WHEN “STALKING” LOOKS ROMANTIC, and the mixed messages that romance films often send. The reason I bring this up is because I think it ties into the recent incident that I wrote about in ANOTHER “NICE GUY” FINISHES LAST… […]
[…] I debated whether or not to write about this MANIAC, because it almost feels like I’m contributing to his “fame” (infamy?), which appears to be one of the things that he wanted in life. Well, at least I decided not to post his picture here, because I’m getting sick of seeing his smug, entitled face. When I first heard of this story yesterday, and watched the “Retribution” video, my initial opinion what that he was an evil bastard and extreme version of one of those deluded “nice guys,” which I’ve written about a few times before. Specifically he sounds like an extreme version of this guy: ANOTHER “NICE GUY” FINISHES LAST… […]
[…] First, if you haven’t seen it, take a look at this post of mine: ANOTHER “NICE GUY” FINISHES LAST… […]
[…] this examples fits all the standard signs of toxic masculinity, not to mention “Nice Guy Syndrome” (as I bet you this guy thinks of himself as a Nice Guy, you can see that by the way he goes on […]